Ecumenical consultation demarcates common ground for dialogue with Islam
25 Oct 2008 - Source: World Council of Churches
(From the ACC Newsletter.)
NOTE:..passages with ALL CAPS are mine.
Christian communities should improve their knowledge of Islam, be good neighbours to Muslims and bear witness to their faith in an appropriate manner, according to an international group of church leaders and experts on Christian-Muslim dialogue.
“WHEN MUSLIMS WANT TO BE GOOD NEIGHBOURS TO EVERYBODY REGARDLESS OF DENOMINATION THEN I MIGHT HALFWAY BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE NEAR TO BEING GENUINE.”
These were some of the recommendations put forward at an 18 to 20 October consultation aimed at developing an ecumenical Christian theological understanding of dialogue with Islam. Convened by the World Council of Churches (WCC), it gathered some fifty church leaders and experts on Christian-Muslim dialogue in Chavannes-de-Bogis, outside Geneva, Switzerland.
Participants acknowledged a history of "mixed" relationships between Christians and Muslims, with both positive and negative dimensions. On their part, Christians have seen Muslims as both friend and rival, neighbour and stranger.
I WILL NEVER SEE THEM AS ‘FRIEND OR NEIGHBOUR, BUT RATHER ALWAYS AS STRANGER’.
However, participants agreed, Christianity teaches to love the neighbour regardless of race, gender or religion. Even more, Christian self-understanding is challenged and deepened through relationships with Muslims, while Christians themselves are renewed by entering into dialogue with them.
AS A CHRISTIAN, I WILL TREAT OTHERS AS HUMANS PROVIDING THEY TREAT OTHERS IN THE SAME MANNER. AS FOR DIALOGUE WITH MUSLIMS, not ANYTHING THEY SAY CAN BE TAKEN AS TRUTH BECAUSE THE KORAN TELLS THEM THEY ARE NOT PERMITTED TO HAVE INFIDELS AS FRIENDS, ONLY TO PRETEND UNTIL THE TIME COMES TO STRIKE IF THEY HAVE FAILED AT CONVERTING THEM.
For this dialogue to be fruitful, it needs to be sensitive, including a careful use of traditional Christian language like mission, witness and conversion. And both church leaders and communities need to be educated in the knowledge of Islam as Muslims live and present it.
WHY DOES THE ‘WCC’ WANT TO … “MISSION, WITNESS AND CONVERT” THE MUSLIM? ARENT THEY SUPPOSED TO BE TEACHING EVERYONE HOW TO LIVE TOGETHER PEACEFULLY? IF THE WCC WANT THE MUSLIM TO CONVERT TO CHRISTIANITY, THEN WHY DON’T THEY THEMSELVES CONVERT TO BEING A MUSLIM IN THE LANDS OF ISLAM?
TO EACH THEIR OWN AND LIVE SIDE BY SIDE IN PEACEFUL SURROUNDINGS AND CONDITIONS….IS WHAT SHOULD BE IN DISCUSSION AND ALL EFFORTS TO GET EVERYONE TO THIS POINT.
While attitudes among Christians towards Islam are diverse and rich, different contexts and experiences of living together with Muslims inspire different theological approaches.
THE ONLY APPROACH SHOULD BE NOT EXPECTING ANYONE FROM THE KORAN TO LIVE IN THE LANDS OF WESTERN SOCIETIES.
The consultation identified a number of issues to be addressed in further dialogue with Muslims, among others: human rights, conversion, concepts of secularism, pluralism, and citizenship, as well as the use of religious symbols for political ideologies and religiously motivated violence.
FURTHER DIALOGUE? …I THINK THIS IS JUST BEATING A DEAD HORSE SO TO SPEAK. TOTALLY FUTILE AS A DEAD HORSE CANNOT AND WILL NOT GO ANYWHERE.
COLLABORATION IS ANOTHER WORD FOR AN ALLIANCE, AND WE ALL KNOW THAT PEOPLE IN ALLIANCE WITH EACH OTHER WILL LAST AS ONLY AS LONG AS THEY CAN BE USEFUL TO EACH OTHER FOR THE SAKE OF SURVIVAL, THEN ONE WILL TURN ON THE OTHER AND WILL SUBJUGATE THE WEAKER PARTY.
AS ON “STAR TREK VOYAGER”,…THE CREW OF CAPTAIN JANEWAY ENTERED INTO AN ALLIANCE WITH THE BORG. THE BORG NEEDED NEW TECHNOLOGY AND VOYAGER CREW NEEDED TO GET THROUGH BORG SPACE WHILE THEY WERE BOTH IN CONFLICT WITH A MORE ADVANCED ALIEN LIFE-FORM. AS SOON AS THE BORG THOUGHT THEY HAD THE TECHNOLOGY SAFELY IN THEIR HANDS THEY THEN TURNED ON THE VOYAGER CREW AND TOLD THEM THEY WERE TO BE ASSIMILATED AND UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE BORG. HOWEVER, VOYAGER CREW HAD TO PUT CERTAIN PLANS INTO ACTION AND ENDED UP BLOWING THE BORG OUT OF THE CARGO HOLD. ONE BORG SURVIVED THIS AND WAS STUNNED BY A LASER GUN. SHE WAS HALF-BORG AS SHE WAS TAKEN AS A CHILD AND ASSIMILATED INTO THE BORG. IT DOES ENSUE THAT ‘THE DOCTOR’ DOES HIS THING AND GRADUALLY RESTORES HER TO A MORE HUMAN PERSONALITY; THIS IS 7-OF-9. SHE EVENTUALLY BECOMES A MUCH VALUED MEMBER OF THE CREW, AND EVENTUALLY IS RESTORED TO FULL HUMAN.
EVERY TIME THE VOYAGER HAS AN ENCOUNTER WITH THE BORG, THEY COME UP AGAINST DECEIT, TRICKS AND LIES. VOYAGER CREW MUST FIGHT FOR THEIR VERY LIVES AND SURVIVAL.
THIS IS WHAT WE ‘HUMANS’ MUST DO AGAINST THE ISLAMISTS. FIGHT FOR OUR SURVIVAL BY ANY MEANS UNTIL WE DRIVE THEM FROM OUR… ‘SPACE’…OUR LAND, OUR SOCIETIES, And OUR FUTURE.
Participants also recommending further Christian-Muslim collaboration on issues such as social and economic justice, climate change, peace and healing of memories.
AS FAR AS FURTHER COLLABORATION ON ISSUES SUCH AS ABOVE ARE CONCERNED… OUR SOCIAL JUSTICE IS TOO FAR REMOVED FROM THE MUSLIMS VIEW OF SOCIAL JUSTCICE. THE ECONOMIC JUSTICE IS THE CONCERN OF EACH INDIVIDUAL AND THE NEED TO LEARN TO LIVE WITH-IN THEIR MEANS, UNFORTUNETELY GREED WILL BE IN MANY PEOPLE AS LONG AS MONEY AND POWER IS IN PLAY. BUT THAT IS OUR WAY, WE HAVE TRIED COMMUNIST, SOCIALIST WAYS, AND THEY DO NOT WORK AS HISTORY HAS PROVEN. DEMOCRACY, AND TRUE DEMOCRACY IS THE ONLY WAY FORWARD FOR THE HUMAN RACE. LET THE ISLAMISTS LIVE UNDER COMMUNISM OR SOCIALISM, CALL IT WHAT YOU WILL, WE ONLY NEED TO LOOK AS REGIMES THAT CONTROL THE PEOPLE BY THIS METHOD, THERE IS NO PEACE NOR IS THERE HAPPINESS OR FREEDOM.
THEN WE HAVE PEACE AND HEALING OF MEMORIES… THERE CAN BE NO HEALING OF MEMORIES UNTIL PEACE, AND EQUALLY SO, THERE CAN BE NO PEACE UNTIL HEALING OF MEMORIES, THUS THE CONUMDRUM OF THE CHICKEN OR THE EGG IS IN PLAY.
Organised by the WCC together with a number of Christian World Communions, the World Evangelical Alliance (WEA) and the Roman Catholic Church, the consultation is a continuation of an ecumenical process launched by the WCC in response to "A Common Word," a letter signed by 138 Muslim scholars and addressed to Christian leaders around the world in October 2007.
THE ‘RC’ AND THE ‘WEA’ CONSULTATION PROCESS IN RESPONSE TO ‘A COMMON WORD’ LETTER, IS JUST A LOAD OF CRAP. THE MUSLIM CANNOT AND NEVER WILL CHANGE THEIR VIEWPOINT OR ANY IDEOLOGIES, AND REALLY, WHY SHOULD THEY. IT IS JUST THE SAME AS THEM EXPECTING US TO CHANGE OUR VIEWPOINT…IT JUST IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, AT LEAST NOT WITHOUT ONE SIDE CAPITULATING TO THE OTHER.
Rather than producing a written response to the letter by the Muslim scholars, the goal of the consultation was to provide a space for churches and communions of churches to share their initiatives and theological resources for engaging with Muslims, and to identify substantial issues for Christian theology in relation to Christian-Muslim dialogue.
THERE CAN BE NO WRITTEN RESPONSE THAT WILL AGREE WITH THE POLITICAL IDEOLY OF ISLAM. ANY INITIATIVE IS TOTALLY FUTILE.
WHAT SORT OF INITIATIVES AND THEOLOGICAL RESOURCES FOR ENGAGING WITH MUSLIMS TO IDENTIFY SUBSTANTIAL ISSUES FOR CHRISTIAN THEIOLOGY IN RELATION TO CHRISTIAN-MUSLIM DIALOGUE WOULD THEY REALLY WANT?
Participants agreed on the need for further ecumenical exploration of theological issues pertaining to Muslim-Christian dialogue and invited the organisers to facilitate the process. A report on the consultation, including the presentations delivered and an account of the findings will be published by the end of the year.
HOW MUCH MONEY IS THIS COSTING? WHO IS PAYING FOR THIS? IS THIS MONEY BEING TAKEN FROM THE TITHES OF CHURCH GOERS? ARE THE SAUDI’S PAYING FOR THIS? THERE ARE TOO MANY QUESTIONS TO BE ASKED AND I DOUBT IF EITHER PARTY WOULD BE ABLE TO COME UP WITH ANSWERS TO SATISFY THE ORDINARY PERSON. I THINK IT’S A BIT RICH CONSIDERING THAT CHRISTIANS AND JEWS COULD NOT BE INVOLVED IN DIALOGUE WITHIN SAUDI LAND.
IF THE MUSLIM LEADERS TRULY WANTED PEACE THEN THEY WOULD START BY PROSECUTING THOSE WHO PERSECUTE THE CHRISTIANS AND JEWS OF THIS WORLD. UNTIL THEN I WILL NEVER BELIEVE A WORD THEY SAY. EQUALLY SO FOR THE WEA AND WCC.
THIS IS ANOTHER REASON WHY I WILL NOT BELONG TO ANY DENOMINATION. THEY ARE ALL BECOMING AN ABOMINATION FOR MY EYES.
MANY FALSE MESSIAHS AND LEADERS WILL COME TO BLIND THE PEOPLE FROM THE TRUTH, AND MANY PEOPLE WILL BE BLINDED BY THEM.
25 Oct 2008
THIS FOLLOWING ARTICLE FROM CAMPUS WATCH IS RIGHT ON THE TRUTH AS FAR AS THE ABOVE ARTICLE IS CONCERNED.
Proselytizing Islam at Penn
by Cinnamon Stillwell
Fri, 24 Oct 2008 at 2:44 PM
http://www.campus-watch.org/blog/2008/10/proselytizing-islam-at-penn.html Islam Awareness Week 2008 is underway at the University of Pennsylvania. Organized by the Muslim Students Association, Islam Awareness Week also has academic sponsors, including the university's Middle East Center.
While "awareness" may be a laudable goal, blatant proselytizing is another matter entirely. Yet today's event, "State and Need for Dawah in the West," promises just that. Here is the description (received by e-mail; emphasis added):
Harvard Chaplain and well-studied individual of Islam, Taha Abdul-Basser will deliver the Friday sermon on the lack of Dawah (invitation) on the part of Muslims in North America, not only to convey a message of submission to God alone but also to wash away misconceptions some share about Islam. Seven years after 9/11, Taha Abdul-Basser will elucidate on the importance of such education, sharing important Prophetic narratives and other occurrences in Islamic tradition that epitomize the magnitude of this act. We expect many non-Muslims to observe our Jummah outside, visually understanding the importance of this holy day.
THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH IS ALL WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN ABOUT.
Clearly, the "need for Dawah in the West" is being met at the University of Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, it's coming courtesy of the Muslim Students Association, an organization tainted by Saudi/Wahhabi funding, ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, and a history of inviting radical and anti-Semitic speakers to its events.
THIS IS PART OF THE WORLD-WIDE PLAN THAT HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR QUITE AWHILE NOW AND THEY HAVE PLANS TO KEEP IT GOING UNTIL THEY HAVE CONQUERED THE WORLD AND HAS IT UNDER TOTAL ISLAMIC RULE.
Moreover, why would the Middle East Center cosponsor such an event given its overtly religious nature? It amounts to the Middle East Center doing its own version of Dawah. Would the same Center, or any academic department, co-sponsor an event involving evangelical Christian proselytizing? I very much doubt it. But when it comes to Islam, propriety goes out the window.
NO, THEY WOULD NOT BECAUSE IT MIGHT INSULT THE SENSITIVITIES OF THE MUSLIM MIND-SET.